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Thread: Latest wave of ships.

  1. #101
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    I will sail all my Spanish ships under Spanish colours.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    I agree with Jim.
    If you are only going to buy one three Decker it has to be the Santa Ana because of the historical importance of it at Trafalgar. As the Flagship of Vice-Admiral Ignacio Maria de Alva y Navarrete, it played a pivotal role in the battle. I only wish that Ares would issue Captain and Admirals' ability cards with important ships such as these.

    Rob.

    Cards like that would be very nice indeed. If/when we see the Santisima Trinidad perhaps we'll have the cards then? Here's hoping so.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  3. #103
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    Or they could actually release a deck of cards like the one in the kickstarter but add more captain cards perhaps.

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    It would be nice to see at least 1 if not 2 (for the 2 choices of ship) Captains card to go with each ship. That would make it unique and a nice shall I shan't I addition to games.

  5. #105
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    Glad you like the idea shipmates, now all we need is for our men with contacts to convince Ares.
    Rob.

  6. #106
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    Has anyone found a points list or updated the spreadsheet for the new ships?

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    I haven't seen an updated spreadsheet yet and until my ships arrive I don't have all the stats needed to do it myself.

    Points values however on the Ares download site are in an updated pdf and includes wave 3 I believe.

    http://www.aresgames.eu/get/SGN000X-...EN-103-web.pdf

    Hope it helps.

  8. #108
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    You are quite right Alan, it is up to date.
    I downloaded it last week.
    Rob.

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    So it is, they just need to update the label.

    Task, could you do the spreadsheet? If so that would be fabulous!

  10. #110
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    6 Spanish Ships including 2 three deckers sailed into Bristol harbour this morning.......... pretty.
    Now to get them rigged for Beachead in a few weeks

  11. #111
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    Good news.
    I look forward to seeing them Chris.
    Three of mine had their first outing yesterday.
    Rob.

  12. #112
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    Been looking at the Spanish 3 decker.... my isnt it tidgy compared to the British and French ones.
    I always imagined the Spanish ships to be large for some reason

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    They may be a little smaller than they should be but they should still be clearly shorter than the French Océan-class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    Been looking at the Spanish 3 decker.... my isnt it tidgy compared to the British and French ones.
    I always imagined the Spanish ships to be large for some reason
    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    They may be a little smaller than they should be but they should still be clearly shorter than the French Océan-class.
    They are most definitely smaller than they should be. You don't even have to measure, you can clearly eye ball the difference in waterline to deck, beam and length of the Spanish 1st Rates vs. the British. As The Ocean class should be larger than any (even the Santisima Trinidad). DB posted some useful information here, including some 1/1000 comparison drawings.

    http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...ght=merigildos
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  15. #115
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    They may be smaller than they should be Chris, but they can punch above their weight.
    I wonder how the Langtons look alongside them!
    Rob.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    They may be smaller than they should be Chris, but they can punch above their weight.
    I wonder how the Langtons look alongside them!
    Rob.
    Funny you should ask that Rob. I decided to pull out my Langton 1/1200 Santa Ana and take some photos next to the Ares version. I honestly was not surprised to see they're almost identical in size. Even the sails on the 1/1000 Ares Santa Ana aren't that much larger!? I think I know one person who is going to enjoy this revelation. Rory, never wanted Ares to go 1/1000 on their ships, and at least for the Spanish First Rates, it almost looks like they were modeled at 1/1200?

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    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  17. #117
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    Thanks Jim.
    I now know that I can live with a mix of the two scales without too much mental conflict.
    Rob.

  18. #118
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    Hmm seems strange dont it, same ship, two different scales and yet look same size.
    I must admit once
    I got the Spanish ships out of the box they all looked like 74's at first glance, hope
    I dont make the same mistake during a game

  19. #119
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    I went to my local games shop yesterday to see what the situation was regarding the new ships. The owner told me that he was unwilling to order expansions 'on spec' when he could not obtain any Starter Sets. However, he was perfectly willing to order some to fulfil a definite order from me.

    The lesson; Ares must keep a supply of Starter Sets available for shops to stock to sell to new players.

  20. #120
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    Starter sets have long vanished from our shores. Unfortunately, I have never seen any Wave 2 models locally either.
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  21. #121
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    Quite right Dave.
    If starter sets are unavailable, no new hands will buy the other ships produced, and despite the hard core collectors it will be a dying game as far as Ares is concerned, no matter how many ships we buy for conversions, wrecks etc.
    rob.

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    I wonder why they bother releasing a third wave when they sontvkeep the starter set available. It seems illogical.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Quite right Dave.
    If starter sets are unavailable, no new hands will buy the other ships produced, and despite the hard core collectors it will be a dying game as far as Ares is concerned, no matter how many ships we buy for conversions, wrecks etc.
    rob.
    This is all too depressingly true. Perhaps I'll go ask why there are no starters available on BoardGame Geek?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  24. #124
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    Same issue as "Wings"; Ares need to work out how to make starter sets permanently available else both series will be perpetually on the rocks.

    Still no answer to the SA=9 question....

  25. #125
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    Andrea recently won Board Game Geek's Designer of the Month award for December 2016. He linked this award thread off the SoG forums and has encouraged all to come and ask questions. While primarily busy with Wings questions there are some Sails of Glory folks active too. Big news is the Battle of Britain set and a Campaign Set of Rules for WWI.

    It's where I just posted a question on the Sails Starter Set and also a question on the Fleet Rules. For good measure I also asked if there was any possibility of releasing an entire campaign rule set for the Napoleonic Wars.

    Thread is here is anyone is interested.

    https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/169...drea-angiolino
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  26. #126
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    Here is the text of what Andrea said on the Geek. Thanks to Jim for flagging it up.




    For Sails of Glory, while a third series of ship is hitting the shelves, we are working on the fourth one and polishing a set of cards with skills for captains and crews, together with several cards featuring the most famed captains of the Napoleonic era. Other things are on the workbench but it is a bit too early to speak about them. All I can say is that with my co-designer Andrea Mainini we are devoting our attention to other periods of the Age of Sails too.


    Rob.

  27. #127
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    I like that about the decks! And I hope that series four will be more like one and two. There are some annoying little things with the third series.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Here is the text of what Andrea said on the Geek. Thanks to Jim for flagging it up.




    For Sails of Glory, while a third series of ship is hitting the shelves, we are working on the fourth one and polishing a set of cards with skills for captains and crews, together with several cards featuring the most famed captains of the Napoleonic era. Other things are on the workbench but it is a bit too early to speak about them. All I can say is that with my co-designer Andrea Mainini we are devoting our attention to other periods of the Age of Sails too.


    Rob.
    I figured someone would catch that. Did you also see his answer in reply to one of our members specifically mentioning brigs and sloops?

    Hello ChuckSherrange!

    Yes, planes took most of the focus here, up to now.

    ChuckSherrange wrote:
    I would love for Brigs to get added in, as I spent many summers on the Niagara in Erie Pa. Also would fight lovely with the sloops.


    Thanks a lot for all your kind words. That's a scale that is difficult to mix with the 74 guns and the 100+ guns of the Napoleonic era. Some sloops are already here, anyway, as the Thorn and some Swan class ships.

    Let's see what the future will bring. In other eras, we could better focus on smaller ships for sure.
    One has to wonder what other 'eras' they might be looking at?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  29. #129

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    Good news for Sails of Glory and WoG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    ... and a Campaign Set of Rules for WWI.

  30. #130
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    Certainly shows that they are not unimpressed by the sales of current stocks.
    We must try to emphasize the need for continuation of the Starter Packs,however, so as to continue to draw in new blood.
    Rob.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I figured someone would catch that. Did you also see his answer in reply to one of our members specifically mentioning brigs and sloops?
    No Jim.
    I missed that.
    I will go and have another look.
    Rob.

  32. #132
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    First let me apologize for a bit of a rant.....

    From my point of view here in Australia, you would have to be pretty dedicated to wanting to get into either Wings or Sails of Glory.
    I can't see any product in any local bricks and Mortar stores except one (down to 4 wave 1 ships) and I think its the owner selling his personal unopened collection from when it first came out.

    Online the stores that did have it listed now have blank pages on their websites or have removed the headings completely.

    The starter set I ordered this week, although a .com.au address is actually coming from New Zealand and if their stock on hand was correct - they had 2.
    This leaves separate ships having to be ordered from the US and basically give up buying 2 ships which is what the freight cost to get your order here, never mind any fluctuation of the $.

    Most of the stores sell X-Wing because I guess it's Star Wars and everyone knows it. Some people don't even play the game and just collect the tiny space ships.
    With Ares there is no chance of impulse buying because it looks cool and interesting. Most wouldn't even know it existed.

    I picked up my first starter set second hand when the gaming club I belonged to in the 80's had one for sale at their annual open day in November last year
    and now have about as many ships as I have in my old Hallmark fleets.
    I can't even remember the first brand of Napoleonic ships I had before them. That just made me realize I have been sailing for around 30 years off and on.

    Personally from a what age of sails next, I don't see a great deal of difference except in models when you are dealing with wind and sea unless you have motors as well
    and I may be wrong but I don't think the interest in any other period would be as great as Napoleonic or whether they are talking about oars and sails as in ancient galleys etc.
    Unless they are planning on cashing in on the Pirates of the Caribbean or the tv show Black Sails but I just don't see any longevity there either.
    But that may stem from me being isolated down here.

    I hope the 80 gunners are coming in the next wave and I'd still be up for the fleet rules if they eventuate.

  33. #133
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    The forth wave is known. It's the Tonnant, Spanish 34 gun frigate, British 64 and a Merchant/Indiaman/Bonhomme Richard.

    We don't know if they will make masts looking wrong and sails billowing the wrong way and slide from the scale as the third wave

  34. #134
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    Andrea did answer my questions although I don't think he understands that 'available' doesn't equate to 'readily and affordably available' in all markets. The frustration that Alan and others face in acquiring any SoG product, let alone the starter set, is daunting and certainly doesn't promote the game gaining popularity or longevity.

    Here's Andrea's answer:

    Hello and thanks!

    The reprint of Sails' starter set has been made in the near past. The game is liasted as available:

    http://www.aresgames.eu/upcoming-products

    Up to local distributors to get it as soon as possible... In any case, it is an item that will be reprinted each time it sells out. No plans to replace it with other starting sets, nor to discontinue it.

    We are testing some kind of campaign, but it is quite early to speak about it. Nor I have a date for fleet rules. In any case we had historical scenarios with up to 71 ships (the maximum) and unhistorical ones with up to 79, using the actual rules:

    The largest Sails of Glory game ever

    https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/1...lory-game-ever
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  35. #135
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    Two significant things emerge from Andrea's remarks to me Jim.
    One is that he needs to see how long the time gap is from selling out in mainstream areas until a reprint ordered when that happens actually hits the shelves which is usually a year. Long enough to lose about eighty punters, based upon the people who visit our shows and go away disappointed during that time. That is only for the U.K. mind you.
    Second. It is fine to say 71 ships can be sailed with the current rules set. However, not many of us can get 71 people together for a game, and whilst it is possible for each participant to run say four ships at once it slows the game down too much. Also for 70 ships you would still need 18 players, and how often do we get that many at a show to do the Nile or Trafalgar?
    I am not getting at Andrea in any way, because without his efforts,and genius we would have no game at all, but when you are at the sharp end at shows where Ares have not got a stand dispensing the goodies to all and sundry, you have to be an apologist for all these matters. The lack of stockists, the difficulty of obtaining the Starter sets and rules, few spares available, slow delivery of new ships, and no campaign rules, to name but the main bones of contention.
    Because we all love the game we carry on playing and demonstrating to the public, but at times it does seem to be a bit of a fruitless exercise. For all the extra expense incurred in petrol, accommodation, and in the trouble we take to go to shows, I sometimes feel that it would just be easier to crack open a few bottles and invite some friends round to stay for a weekends gaming.
    Rob.

  36. #136
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    Very good point, I for one would love a way to manage a fleet without having to resort to basic rules or taking six hours

  37. #137
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    It could be argued that not all new players want to buy a full starter set. Perhaps a cut down version will be produced as was done with Wings of Gory? In the meantime it is really good, in my view, that some new models are available.
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    As to "other periods", let us not forget the Anglo - Dutch Wars!! Battles with hundreds of large Ships-of-the-Line, the Golden Age of Piracy, the four main antagonists: Britain, Dutch, French, & Spanish! As Captain Blood said, " . . . and straight we sail for it!" Aye, those were the days to be a sailor!!
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  39. #139
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    Could a new player get by by downloading the rulebook from the Ares website and buying an Additional Counter set and a set of Ship Mats? However, I know that the accessory packs are just as rare as Starter Sets.

  40. #140
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    It is feasible to do it that way Dave.
    There are still quite a few pockets of accessory packs about.
    The ones that seem to have gone almost entirely are the coastline and bun battery ones.
    Mats are getting scarce too but there are alternative mats on here, plus if you can borrow one it is easy to photocopy them.
    Rob.

  41. #141
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    I'm not sure you can do without the starter set, it has the wind marker, chits, measuring sticks. Can you buy them separately?

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    It is fine to say 71 ships can be sailed with the current rules set. ....
    To be honest most of these "record games" appear to be more akin to 30+ fairly individual games that just happen to be running on a very wide single table. I woudl imagine that if you were putting on a serious reconstruction of a battle with this number of ships or more you'd have a far more "interesting" time of it

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
    As to "other periods", let us not forget the Anglo - Dutch Wars!! Battles with hundreds of large Ships-of-the-Line, the Golden Age of Piracy, the four main antagonists: Britain, Dutch, French, & Spanish! As Captain Blood said, " . . . and straight we sail for it!" Aye, those were the days to be a sailor!!
    Nice idea, but I wonder whether there is sufficient general interest (and awareness) to make this a viable commercial proposition. I'm not sure but I think that galley warfare n the Med in the 16th century would be a far easier sell to the general wargaming population, plus a far easier period in which to develop and produce a range of generic galley types that would serve as ships from a number of nations and city states, plus a decent number of specifics. I ca also see the period being far more amenable to a simpler set of rules more akin to WGF (and hence increasing the fun and accessibility aspects for new and unfamiliar players) - plus it is one of the most colourful periods of naval warfare.

    But on a more serious note I'd prefer (and I think expect) Ares to sort out the issues regarding regular availability of starter sets both for Sails and for Wings before embarking on another period where, after an initial rush of interest the range ends up in the same doldrums as we see with their established lines.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjl View Post
    Very good point, I for one would love a way to manage a fleet without having to resort to basic rules or taking six hours
    a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.
    That would be brilliant! Imagine issues G orders to captains and then using dice or chits to determine how they are followed. Make it an in depth table top strategy game rather than a captaincy simulator.

    I think you hit the nail right on the head, I think these rules do an excellent job of simulating a captain in charge of his ship, but fall short when controlling more than a couple of ships. I find any thing more than 3 v 3 to be a burocratic nightmare. Especially as I'm almost always playing solo games and so basically trying to manage six ships.

    How do other people manage in big games? Use the intermediate or basic rule set?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    To be honest most of these "record games" appear to be more akin to 30+ fairly individual games that just happen to be running on a very wide single table. I woudl imagine that if you were putting on a serious reconstruction of a battle with this number of ships or more you'd have a far more "interesting" time of it
    Absolutely correct. I participated in both of the Ares Record Breaking games at Gen Con and they were free for all's with no coordination or planning per nationality. Walram (David) is the only person I know of who's done the big battles in a coordinated and historical manner.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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    I use the advanced rules but cherry pick, Very seldom have wind strength changes for instance, and use the simple set of ship mats you can see in my AAR's. Just fill them in with a white board marker and return all chits to the bag each move. All ships form line of battle and do not sail as individuals until necessity forces them to do so. ie enemy ship getting in the way.
    In this manner I have managed to sail six a side, but would rather not go any higher in numbers.
    However, when playing a friend, the inevitable banter makes it much harder to keep an eye on what is happening and exactly where you are.
    I think that with practice and developing an order for carrying out each action you can get better at managing larger numbers of ships, but as I said six a side is about my personal limit. You also need to concentrate a lot more if the British are using Carronades.
    Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.
    So, why isn't Ares having you do this Dave? I have no doubt you'd come up with something that would excellently fit the bill and probably be a heck of a lot of fun to boot!
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.
    Have you seen Gå På?
    It's a rules set for War of Spanish succession and Great Northern War. It's for land battles at about 1700-1720. The thing is that you set up your army and command it at the beginning. Then units start firing and visibility drops. You loose control of the army more and more. In the end everything turns into chaos and you as the general can only choose the most important spot and hope for the best with the rest.

    As an admiral you can make signals widely seen leading up to the actual battle, but then theres smoke everywhere, even making ships mistake friend for foe. Then the admiral can only control the closest ships and hope that every man will do his duty.

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    Very true Jonas.
    Even the repeater Frigates placed up wind to avoid the fog of war could only see the Flagships signals as long as he did not cut the enemy line. Then there was a wall of smoke between him and his Frigates. The same went for any of his ships which got even slightly downwind of the enemy.
    Nelson knowing this would happen as soon as his ships cut the Line at Trafalgar, kept things simple when he told his Captains that they would do no wrong if they placed themselves alongside an enemy. Then left it to their discretion. KISS in action?

    Rob.

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