I just started reading this thread today and I find it absolutely fascinating in it's evolution. Just fascinating. I have to agree with everyone about 2 things: The wims of the postal service and the overtaxing of everyones government,but the most important question is when are we going to get our TOYS?????
Hi Tony. If you're here for any length of time you'll notice that thread drift is quite common. Case in point; going from the original OP to discussions on the American Civil War, taxes, Sherman tanks vs. everything else and WW1/WW2 is just how it's working. I think the main reason for that is we're tired of waiting for our 'toys' and there's not enough else to talk about.Originally Posted by Ayeblackbart
Don't think it'll get any better when we DO have toys to play with
I'd actually been getting a bit pissy about the thread drift across multiple threads here until I made the same conclusion as your statement. We're bored and frustrated we haven't got our stuff yet.
So since we have passed an entire week after the holiday since the stuff was to have arrived at the warehouse and still no word, I think that speculation in the absence of knowledge starts to take hold.
I wonder if the warehouse in Ft Wayne is one where many shipments from many companies arrive are sorted and then sent on.
If so, the Ares stuff may well have arrived but is still in queue to be sorted behind who knows how many other batches.
With the Christmas shipping season now in high gear, it may be anyone's guess when the Ares stuff gets to the top of the stack at the warehouse.
I think your speculation concerning the warehouse may be spot on. At least I have other ships and projects to work on.
However, I keep thinking that if I'd been given permission from the powers that be, I could have driven to Ft. Wayne, dived into the containers myself, grabbed just my stuff and been back home several days ago. Heck, we might have gotten a convoy of folks heading there?(yes I know that's totally unrealistic, but it's fun to speculate in another direction)
I'm hoping it's in alphabetical order and Ares is the top of the list. Of course I do have an optimism bias.
I think your speculation concerning the warehouse may be spot on. At least I have other ships and projects to work on.
However, I keep thinking that if I'd been given permission from the powers that be, I could have driven to Ft. Wayne, dived into the containers myself, grabbed just my stuff and been back home several days ago. Heck, we might have gotten a convoy of folks heading there?No doubt a motivated "squad" from this site could have made quick work of getting the shipment processed and on it's way.I'm hoping it's in alphabetical order and Ares is the top of the list. Of course I do have an optimism bias.
I wonder if the Ares folks may be nearly as in the dark about when the warehouse will get their stuff processed as we are.
That would certainly explain the lack of additional updates.
I'm sorry, Jim, but I have to disagree with you. Thread drift does not happen here. Has anyone ever seen the A&E version of Pride and Prejudice?
Of course not!?!
No, threads here don't drift... they just tack with the prevailing winds of member contributions. :D
As I understand it: When the Charge was ordered, many of the extras were sobbing as they went in....
Nah -- the US mainly gets into wars because folks can't seem to figure out to Leave The US Alone. :)
Recommended Reading: _The Myth of the Great War_, John Mosier. Short version: If the US hadn't been around for the '18 German offensives, at the very least the war would have ended in a "dog fall", as the Germans defeat the West, but then have to race home to deal with the Commie uprisings back home. (A certain Lt. Col. of cavalry with the initials "GSP" would be *really* interested to hear about his lack of tactical innovation where Armor was concerned. :) )
A sizable percentage of Soviet losses were the result not of enemy action, but of their government's own brutality -- NKVD commissars executing people; penal-infantry battalions being used up in suicide attacks; deliberate starvation of civilians; the list goes on and on (sometimes expressed as "half of them were killed by the Germans; the other half contracted fatal cases of NKVD"). The West, conversely, ran a far more-efficient, and thus far less bloody, war. Just because a side ends up with a high body-count doesn't mean it did most of the work in a war; in fact, in most cases, it means someone on that side Really Screwed Up (contrast the Army of the Potomac's body-count with how far it actually moved in the ACW, vs., say, Army of the Cumberland, and how much enemy territory *it* took during the war). The "no Second Front until mid-'44" lie is just more Soviet agitprop, repeated loud enough and often enough for some people to buy it. (There's also unconfirmed rumors that Uncle Joe deliberately let Barbarossa go off, as the hammer would fall heaviest not on Russia proper, but on "occupied" nations to the West -- Ukraine, Belarus, etc. -- and particularly among the restive populations therein agitating for freedom from the Soviet Union; the ones who weren't killed by the Germans would join them, and could then be justifiably "removed" when the USSR won.) The Soviets took a hit, to be sure; but there's some question of just how much of that hit was inflicted by others, and more questions as to whether they could have been beaten on a bit less.
It isn't "the historical record" which is the problem; it's the way some (mercifully deceased) groups tried to misinterpret, mangle, and muddle the record for their own advantage. It's gotten to where it's almost impossible to discuss any historical topic without it getting tangled up in Politics (this is why so many fora, this one included, have "no religion, no politics" rules) -- "for any culture, the right history is worth 100 divisions", as Dear Old Uncle Adi's crew put it; and they were right on that score.
Now where'n'ell's my _SoG_? :P
That's great! Very funny, Paul.
http://www.terraquote.com/quote/1161...ntial-fact-to/
"I have left the obvious, essential fact to this point, namely, that it is the Russian Armies who have done the main work in tearing the guts out of the German army. In the air and on the oceans we could maintain our place, but there was no force in the world which could have been called into being, except after several more years, that would have been able to maul and break the German army unless it had been subjected to the terrible slaughter and manhandling that has fallen to it through the strength of the Russian Soviet Armies."
The Germans lost ten times as many troops in the first 6 months of being in the Soviet Union than they did the entire war up to that point on the western front.
The German casualties were higher than the Soviet casualties in Bagration. Enemy at the Gates style movie tactics got left behind before Stalingrad.
The Germans considered the entire western front very much a less important secondary front.
Nice one Paul!!
Here's my version; two actually. One from a favorite movie and the other a recurring nightmare I've been having lately!!
Last edited by Nightmoss; 01-23-2014 at 21:31.
Agree with you Andy, the size of the undertaking by the Germans was so great and the forces arrayed against them so numerous that the Western Allies should be forever grateful the Germans went east when they did. This is not to disagree with Chris' point about huge losses due to huge ineptitude, rather to say that you both make good cases.
As to 1918 on the Western Front..don't forget the Australian Corps that stopped the Michel German offensive flat. Of the five spring offensives, two were beaten back by the French, one by the US one by a mixture of the Allies and one by the Australian and Br forces. Dominion troops (Australian, Canadian, NZ, Sth African and Indian) made up a substantial proportion of the "British" front by this stage of the war as Britain struggled with manpower issues whilst the French appeared to have recovered from their horrible 1917 year and remained solid.
Or, alternatively, poorly researched and presented revisionist tosh that simply recycles myths (apparently its ok to accept myths and untruths if they support your own hypothesis) and misrepresents facts to draw an unsupportable conclusion. And as the author stated, on a subject he knew very little about. However, about on par for what passes as "historical"work these daysRecommended Reading: _The Myth of the Great War_, John Mosier.
Must have missed that Vietnamese first strikeNah -- the US mainly gets into wars because folks can't seem to figure out to Leave The US Alone. :)
Raiders was one of my favorites as well. Very funny Jim! Your recurring nightmare must be lacking a Dewey Decimal System.
It was my understanding (read from Panzer Blitz background booklet that came with the game,years ago) that it took 70% of Germany's war effort to fight the Russians. If you think about it North Africa was a back water front and so was Sicily and Italy. The Western Allies didn't really get "in" the European war in a major way until D-Day.
I say this with apologies to all who died fighting in these areas as a bullet or a bomb in a secondary theatre is just as lethal as the main front. Once the Allied air bombardment of Germany went after oil then their contribution to the cause had to be considered significant.
I agree about the boredom waiting for our toys. That is why I haven't visited much. I figured when the toys came out everyone would be all in to post scenarios, ship comparisons and everthing else that comes with a new game. The picture of the warehouse looking like the one in "Raiders" was nicely done. I hope Ft. Wayne's is somewhat smaller. I want toys by Christmas.
Sorry Tony, Santa is a little busy with some last minute *details*. He'll have to get back to you later.
Well Done!
I can't really fault Santa for that!
'Tis the season you know.
Raisers of the Lost Ark is one of the great re-watchable movies of all time. That being said...Raiders was one of my favorites as well. Very funny Jim! Your recurring nightmare must be lacking a Dewey Decimal System.
Did you see the Big Bang Theory episode where Amy points out Indiana Jones was extraneous to the conclusion of the movie?
Sadly Andy I do not follow The Big Bang Theory.
It is a funny show about geeks. Amy makes the point that if Indiana Jones were never there, the movie would still end the same way.
Yes, I expect they're using the Cutter Classification system rather than LC. Makes things much, much harder to locate (please forgive the library speak).Raiders was one of my favorites as well. Very funny Jim! Your recurring nightmare must be lacking a Dewey Decimal System.
I've only caught a few episodes, but it is a great show and very relevant for geeks and nerds (of course I count myself among that crowd, and now we even have our own magazine)
http://www.geekexchange.com/geek-magazine/
Santa could bring me a "detail" like that any time... :P
Getting back to who will get their package first, I would think that even the most pessimistic person would think that packages should start arriving by the end of the week.
Really? Given what we (don't) know right now, that sounds OPTimistic. If they ship out all the kickstarters by the end of the week, then I will be pleasantly surprisedGetting back to who will get their package first, I would think that even the most pessimistic person would think that packages should start arriving by the end of the week.
The Germans running that war were ignorant, stupid, and incompetent; and only got as far as they did because the rest of the world ignored the problem until it swam up and bit them on the ass.
If they'd been paying attention the last time around, they would have understood: Control of the Atlantic was *far* more important than anything which happened on land. They lacked the necessary resources to fight a protracted war; those resources had to come from overseas, which meant keeping the supply lanes open -- which means the Battle for the Atlantic was the important field; not acquiring "living space" which even the people who lived there weren't thrilled about living in. Coupled to this: Who was doing the most damage to the German ability to supply beans, bandages, and bullets (aside from the Germans themselves, by not going to a war footing until very much later), and thus maintain the fight? The West was attacking Germany-proper as early as '42; when did the Soviet Army first reach German territory?
Further ignorance, stupidity and incompetence: How the land war was fought when it did happen. The last go-round, the Germans actually managed to defeat Russia, and did so *without* having to occupy large swaths of territory; one would have thought with that object lesson in recent memory, they might have learned something. (Mention of Stalingrad, and Berlin: Can you imagine any Western Army fighting a battle like that? Hell no -- they let the Germans wedge themselves into the city, then lay siege while the air forces firebomb the place. Results are the same for the Germans, but with much lower body-counts for the West.)
That the Germans saw the East as more important is no more than confirmation of their idiocy (and bigotry -- remember, a large part of why they were fighting was to murder Eastern "untermenschen"). They couldn't tell where the real game was being played.
I did say "mainly": VN was an example of *why* the US doesn't like getting involved in other peoples' problems -- rarely does it accomplish anything for the people being "helped" ("if I do 50 pushups, you don't lose weight").
True... And Victory in WW2 was joint effort of many nations (although Russians did suffer the most and fought heaviest battles). And no nation would win on it's own.
csadn,
As I believe, biggest German mistake was attacking Russians on their own - without Japan, for example (I didn't count other allies). And biggest Japanase mistake was attacking USA before USSR was knocked out of the war.
Last edited by Пилот; 12-08-2013 at 20:01.
I take it you feel the western front was the "real game"? Winston Churchill does not agree with you. He felt the Eastern front was the "real game" and more important, just like the Germans did. He wasn't an idiot.
No he wasn't. A nationalist and a politician, but not an idiot.
You mean the little corporal with the mustache who as time went on continually overruled strategic plans made by a generally competent GHQ.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic:
Will my annual Christmas game involve ships or aeroplanes? It is scheduled for 12/18.
Eric
Can't mean him. He was Austrian :)
With no update as of Noon today (CST) I'm going to guess you'll be playing with aeroplanes. Not a bad thing, but not what most of us were hoping for.You mean the little corporal with the mustache who as time went on continually overruled strategic plans made by a generally competent GHQ.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic:
Will my annual Christmas game involve ships or aeroplanes? It is scheduled for 12/18.
Eric
LOL!
Let's rephrase... the Messianic Psychopath POS who shoulda been popped like a Zit From Hell back in the '20s...
As long as they come before Christmas... my package is a gift to my boys.
Since you are comparatively close to the Ft Wayne warehouse, perhaps you should ask Ares if they might create a "Will Call" window.
This dude: .
Yes, you are permitted to ask "where in hell does he find this stuff?". :)
Not so much where, but why?
I'll never forget the first time I saw the original movie version. After this number, my reaction was like the audience's - jaw dropped. Than I wet my pants.
Glad I missed THAT showing!
Glad I wasn't the person that sat in his seat during the NEXT showing!
Last edited by Coog; 12-09-2013 at 23:15.
Gentlemen, did you hear about the little boy who wetted his bed?
His mom came into the room in the morning and said, "You're in trouble."
Back to topic,
Ares just posted on the KS comments, that there was a little delay due to customs, but that they expect delivery to start anytime now. They promised a proper update soon.
By now, I do not expect things to be here within 2013. Hope to have them before work starts anew on January 7th.
Thanks for the update. It's what most of us feared and in this case, "No news, wasn't good news!". Going to be a real bummer for Ares retail sales if they were banking on Holiday shoppers. Maybe there's an outside chance for Boxing Day?
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