Don't know if someone posted this before.
Zbezda develops a boardgame with ships from the age of sail.
Name: Armada Invincible
Miniatures are 1/350
http://bleaseworld.blogspot.de/2013/...ible-game.html
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Don't know if someone posted this before.
Zbezda develops a boardgame with ships from the age of sail.
Name: Armada Invincible
Miniatures are 1/350
http://bleaseworld.blogspot.de/2013/...ible-game.html
Nice link Sven, hadn't heard of these at all.
Those are nice looking ships. Zvezda is really turning out some nice looking things at relatively low prices. I am waiting for their 1/200 WWII aircraft line to expand. I bought a model of the Li-2, the Soviet copy of the C-47, to paint up as a C-47 and use with WOG and was really impressed by the quality and simplicity of the model.
Sven, stop tempting me my Friend. :happy:
I am glad Zvezda is producing WWII armor given A&A has ceased production. They are nice looking and fairly inexpensive.
Wow those look great. SGN is my first venture into AoS any idea how the rules for AI flow?
I could see Zvezda in the future producing Russian ships of a later period for wars with the Swedes and Dutch.
Very nice link Sven. I have not heard of this prior.
Nice link Sven, thanks for posting this!!!
Thanks for the post on this. I have to check my OLGS to see if they have this. Not sure if I would get it as I am waiting for the Sails game but might be nice to have one of the models.
Saw this on coolstuffinc.com for about $49.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt P
This is an old thread, but if anybody is interested in downloading the rules for Armada Invincible, you can download them here for free:
http://www.rpggeek.com/filepage/106188/ships-rulebook
I notice that in place of damage counters their ship cards are coated and they use water based marker pens to indicate damage.
Thanks, Kenneth. A quick look at the rules has me intrigued. I will go through them more closely. This game was not really on my radar, but the little I have looked at the rules has me wanting to look into the game some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentop
These looks like the Art of Tactic rules that Zvezda uses for a number of their games (Samurai Battles, World War II Tank Combat, etc.). I haven't tried out the rules set yet, but I like the models they produce.
I wrote about it in the post of Spiel 2014 in Essen.
The price was between 80 and 90 Euros in Essen. And you will get another ships for this game.
Maybe next year....:question:
I like the way they assign movement tokens for each mast. As each mast becomes damaged, the ship loses movement. I also like the idea that individual cannons are destroyed, reducing the effectiveness of a broadside on one side of the ship. The rules take into account losses to crew and officers which also affects broadsides. Losing a captain is devastating. You can replace the master gunner with the first mate if the gunner is killed. You move your pikemen and musketeers up on deck to fire and send them belowdecks to protect them. All good stuff. I worry about using one D20 per cannon. Imagine a first rate ship of the line using 50 dice per broadside! What I don't like is the same thing I don't like about SOG, totally inaccurate, not to scale movement. SOG is slightly better at ship movements because it doesn't use a hex grid. I can live with the movement cards in SOG. I don't know if I can live with the movement restrictions in Armada Invincible. The models look great, but you have to make them. SOG attracted me because it had ships already painted and ready to sail.
Jack, I read your review, which is how I learned of the game. I started snooping around for a set of rules in english and actually found the pdf. Thanks for posting the information on what looks like a really great game.
Ken, what is it exactly that you don't like about SOG movement?
David, SOG movement is not to scale. Ships of that era sailed between 4 and 8 knots an hour. This translates to 400 feet to 800 feet a minute. A ship, say HMS Bellerophon, with a gun deck 168 feet long, would literally travel 2 to 3 times the distance of her gun deck in one minute. Since a turn in Sails of glory lasts about two minutes in real time, the ships should travel between 4 to 6 times their length each turn (At 1:1000 scale, that translates to 12 to 18 inches per turn). Using the movement cards, the ships barely move two ship lengths at most, making their actual speed more like 2 knots in scale. I printed out a deck of movement cards in 8"x10" size which produces the proper scale ship movements. You need a big living room floor to move the ships, but the sailing is more realistic. I've made my peace with the very slow, tight movements of the ships in SOG. I really like playing the game as is, but I appreciate a touch more realism in things like ship movement.
"Prevailing Winds" rules uses one d20 per gun as does "Sail Power" I believe. However both are designed for smaller ships. PW was designed for War of 1812 battles on the Great Lakes in 15mm scale. I did play the Constitution once (yes using the 1/96 Revell model cut to the waterline) and it was quite fun rolling the handfuls of d20!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentop
I think in many miniatures games you have to rely on some telescoping of movement. Having said that the best movement system I have played was "Clear for Action" by Malcolm Smalley, which was a computer assisted game system. As a sailor I really appreciated the realism of the movement modeled by the system.
Ah, you have come across a common featureof miniatures wargaming, where the scale of the models doesn't match the ground scale. You will find this in virtually everyset ofnaval rules out there (there are a few exceptions though) and indeed most land and air games too (for example Wings of Gloty is closer to "reality" if its 1/144 scale models are replaced with 1/300 or1/600 models (I forget which, but somene on the Aerodrome did the calcs a few years back). It is an entirely understandable approach given players' desires to use attractive models in the confines of a reasonable playing spaceOne option I guess if you wanted a closer model to ground scale relationship would be to use the existing manoeuvre cards but replace the 1/1000 models with 1/2400 or 1/3000Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentop
Yup. In order to play SOG on a tabletop and have the ships move to the scale on the movement cards, the ships would have to be about 3/4 in long. The unreleased game "Captain's Sea" has an interesting take on movement. The idea is that the ships move relative to each other. If both ships are on the same tack and are chasing each other, the ships don't move relative to each other unless one ship is faster than the other. Then it would move the difference in speed between the two and the other ship would not move at all. I bet it will be hard to actually implement a movement metric like that, but you never know. Some wag might just figure out an easy way to do it.
I've used similar mechanics in other "chase" orientated games such as "Mad Max" style road combat, WW2 bomber games, etc.where you select a unit of interest abd "scroll" the other units (and terrain) around it. Its generally a fairly straightforward system, made a lot simpler if using a gridded or hex based playing surface :thumbsup:
I'm planning to run Armada Invincible Game at Historicon. I have convered the HMS Revenge to make Ark Royal, Golden Lion, White Bear (From San Martin) The problem I ran into was San Martin which had a length of 185 ft compared to Revenge at 150ft yet both ship models are the same size so I have used Old Glory miniature ships using Medium size Spanish ships (1:300) scale to make San Martin,San Juan and La Rata Encoronada. I also have a galleass
The Rules are interesting which I've been modifing. Example: Full sails let ships more 1 additional hex, Spanish 4 mast only move 3 hexs instead of 4 (being slower-note basic movenment 1 speed token per mast) may still add 1 speed token for Full sail. All Ships lose Full sail when a mast is destroyed except Spanish 4 mast which doesn't lose a speed token until 2nd mast destroyed and a galleass will lose 1 speed token after 3rd mast destroyed (note she has sails and oars and when using oars only has a speed of 2). A English Race built may add 1 additional speed token because the hull was steam line and therefore faster.
No sailing ship may sail up wind except a Galleass using oars only.
A galleass using oars only may turn 2 hexs without cost and move 2 hexs or turn 3 hexs at a cost of 1 and may move 1 after. also a Galleass using sail and oars may subtract 1 from wind direction when turning (Oars can be used to turn ship faster)
Special damage: Any time a natural 1 is rolled apply normal damage and roll a d6 to see if there was any special damage with the following:
1=Fire, 2=Waterline, 3=Mast, 4=Helm or Rudder hit, 5-6=no effect.
Modifiers Half range -1 to die roll.
Results:
Fire: Lose 2 hull per turn if not put out (see damage control)
Waterline: 1 hull per turn if not put out (see damage Control)
Mast: First hit mast damage but holds unless ship was at full sail which will destroy the mast. every 2 mast hits=a mast destroyed
Helm or Rudder: A Helm hit is when a ship is firing into the bow or broadside and is a temporary hit lose 1 crew and roll a d6 for the following
results: 1-2= 1 turn straight, 3-4= 2 turns straight, 5-6= 3 straight before ship can turn.
A Rudder hit is when a ship is firing into the stern and damages the Rudder which needs to be repaired (see damage control)
Damage control: Roll a d20 for each Special damage hit that needs to be repaired a 12 or less= repaired (if ship doesn't fire then it can subtract
-2 from the die roll)
Note when attempting to repair(put out a fire) and you roll a natural 20= means explosing roll a d6 for results:
1=Ship explodes and sinks, 2= Mast destroyed-lose 4 hull and 4 crew, 3-4= Mast destroyed-lose 3 hull and 3 crew, 5-6= lose
2 hull and two crew.
I hope these changes will help. Don
Hamilton
Would you be willing to share some photos of your ships including the Old Glory conversions? I am thinking of doing the same thing.
Michael
Hopefully the slumping Russian economy doesn't halt Zvezda's ability to keep producing product!!
A friend of mine is one of their "Demo" guys, and gets advanced copies of their games and additional models. He asked me to glue all the Samurai figures together for the game he planned to run at Gen Con when it was released. Gosh that was fun!!!! :shock:
The Armada Game looks really nice, and as mentioned uses the Art of Tactics rules as a basis, while they work pretty well for single ship actions how well they would work in a Squadron/Fleet match up is difficult to judge as the record keeping would slow a large game down considerably.
Between Zvezda and Bombat, I think I'm financing both sides of that war....
Hello Michael: I just posted my ships.Don
Intersting pictures.
They use decals for the main sails of some ships.
Don
Great use of the available models and you have opened up some interesting possibilities. Did you re-plank the decks of the Old Glory ships? They have huge gratings over much of the deck surface area that can't be right.
Michael
The only option I see is to eliminate with Dremel the big gratings and choose the deck but I don't know how much work is this ...
Don
I hope Zvezda realizes what a great opportunity they have with this series.
Attachment 13995
Don
Would it be possible to get from you the hull dimensions of your Old Glory ships? I think your approach to adjusting the model selection and conversion to fit the available Zvezda models is very smart. I'd like to do something similar. Knowing the keel length and breadth of your ships would help me immensely. Thanks!
Michael
Michael:
The Armada Invincible Ships like Revenge was 150 ft long and most of the Race Built ships and White Bear were the same length also Medium Spanish Galleons were 140-150 ft so San Martin was 185 ft long however Zvezda San Martin is the same size has their Revenge so San Martin should be at least 1" longer so I decided to use 1:300 scale ships from Old Glory using Medium Spanish Galleons which are close to a Large Spanish Galleon in 1:350. anyway the Waterline length of my new San Martin is 5 3/4 " X 1 1/4 total Hull length around 6 3/4".
Zvezda Revenge Waterline length around 4 1/2" X 1" and total Hull. 5 1/2"
True scale for 1:350 is around 1" for 29 ft.
Hope this helps.
Don
Thank Don for your information. It is very usefull.:beer:
Thanks Don, this is perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavis41
I've finished the Modified Armada Invincilbe rules to be used at Historicon
I was able to post it. Hope you enjoy it. Don
CHIEF'S MODIFIED ARMADA INVINCIBLE
These modified rules are used to enhance the playability of the game Armada Invincible and any
optional rules should be used with experience naval war gamers
1. Issue Orders:
A. Determine wind direction
B. Set sail settings and additional Movement
C. Record Movement orders
D. Receive Speed Tokens
2. Execute Movement orders:
Resolve any Collisions, Grappling's, Towing, Combat, Record Casualties/Damage,
Boarding action's (initial and continued) and Close Combat
3. Damage Control:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Issue Orders
A. Wind direction: Will be determined at the beginning of the game.
B. Sail Settings and additional Movement
Furled Sails: No movement (except Galleass using oars only see Galleass) may pivot at the end of
movement but must be recorded.
Battle Sails: Ships will receive 1 Speed Token for each mast (not destroyed) except a Spanish 4
mast which receives only 3 Speed Tokens (slower than English 4 mast) and a
Galleass using oars only. A ship may slow down by 1 Speed Token but never end up
less than 1 Speed Token
All ships will lose 1 speed token for each mast destroyed except a Spanish 4 mast which
loses 1 speed token after the second mast is destroyed and then each mast afterwards
and a Galleass will lose 1 speed token after the third mast is destroyed and will use oars
only after that. Ship's that didn't move receive a -2 Die modifier when firing cannons.
Full Sails: Ships receive 1 additional speed token and player's get to place 2 Speed Tokens
instead of 1 in each movement phase . All ships will lose their Full Sails capability when
the first Mast is destroyed. When a ship using Full Sails receives a Mast damage Special
hit it will become a Mast destroyed. Receives a +1 Die modifier when firing cannons.
Galleass: When using oars only may receive 2 Speed Tokens and can turn 1- 2 hexes without cost
and then move 2 hexes or turn 3 hexes at a cost of 1 and may move 1 after. also a
Galleass using sail and oars may subtract 1 from wind direction when turning (Oars can
be used to turn the ship faster)
English Race Built: May receive 1 addition Speed Token ( For having a stream line hull)
Boarding Action: Will receive 4 Speed Tokens for a continued Boarding Action's and is used to
conduct Close Action combat after each Speed Token is used. Note: All
Ships involved in a Boarding Action's can't move.
C. Record Movement Orders
Plotting a Course: You must write down the exact path (course) your ship will follow each time
it moves and turns. It must spend 1,2,or 3 Speed Tokens,depending on the Wind
Direction. When you plot your ship's course, write down the movement cost for each
move or turn in the Movement Cost column on the Orders Card and the total movement
cost can't exceed the number of Speed Tokens the ship had available for the
current turn.
Fair Winds: (Reaching/Running) is moving or making a turn with the wind coming from
the stern (coming from behind) and cost 1 Speed Token.
Side Wind: (Beating) is moving or making a turn with the wind coming from off the Bow
(coming from off the front) and cost 2 Speed Tokens.
Head Wind: Moving or making a turn into the wind (coming from straight ahead)
and cost 3 Speed Tokens. No Sailing ship can sail (move into the wind) except
a Galleass using oars only. They can swing (turn) through the wind (tacking) so a ship
can change the direction (side) the wind is coming from and may take more than
one turn to complete. Note: A ship that can't complete the turn (ending the turn with
Side Wind coming from the opposite side) at the end of the turn will move 1 hex down
wind.
D. Receive Speed Tokens
Players receive their Speed Tokens for the current turn (See Sail Settings and additional
Movements above)
2. Execute Movement orders:
Phase 1: Each player will place 1 or 2 (ship's using Full Sail) Speed Tokens next to their ship and then
execute any movements or turns allowed. Used Speed Tokens are then remove.
Collisions: (Optional) Collisions occur when any ship makes contact with another ship and all
movement stops until next turn. Check Armada Invincible Game Rules pg 16 & 17 for
damages done. Note: All ships involved are considered stationary for that turn and any
ship attempting to grapple will receive a - 4 dice modifier.
Grappling: (Optional) A ship can attempt to grapple another ship within 1 hex or less. Grappling is
used when attempting to Board or Tow another ship and if successful all ship's involved
will stop movement until all Boarding is completed or ship taken in Tow (see Boarding
and Towing) All ships involved are considered Stationary. To grapple another ship row 1
D 20 and if the results are 12 or less then it's successful. Dice modifiers are as follows:
+4 if enemy has any Musketeers on board, - 4 if enemy ship is Stationary and
- 4 if you have Pikeman
Note: Grappling a friendly ship is Automatic.
Towing: (Optional) A ship can tow another ship after it successfully grapples that ship and will
start to tow the ship at the beginning of the next turn at half their normal speed and
rounding down any odd number. ( Example: 4 Mast English Race Built has 5 Speed
Tokens and can tow another ship at a new movement of 2 Speed Tokens)
Combat: Cannons have to be Charged (Loaded) before they can fire and a enemy ship has to be
within the Fire Zone (Arc) and range of the cannons. All cannons will start the Basic
game charged with Cannonballs and for different types of ammunition (Bar Shot or
Grapeshot) see Armada Invincible game rule pages 22 -24.
Range Maxium Range for English ships are 8 hexes and for Spanish ships are 6 hexes for
Cannonballs and other types of ammunition has a shorter ranges see Armada
Invincible game rule pages 22 - 24 for more information.
Fire Zones There is 4 types of Fire Zones: Bow, Left (Port) and Right (Starboard) Broadsides and
Stern. Bow fire Zone is the hexes directly in front of the Bow and is used for the
Spanish Galleass only, Left and Right Broadside Fire Zone are the 2 hexes next to the
side of the ship and extents in a Arc forwarded and aft (back) of the ship and Stern Fire
Zone is the hexes directly behind the Stern hex. (See Armada Invincible Captain's Basic
Course page 7 details).
Firing When your ship fires on a enemy ship, You need to check the Gunfire Chart on your
Ship's card and find the row for the type of ammunition you are firing (Cannonball) Then,
find the column that shows the range to the closest hex occupied by the target ship.
The results is the Basic (Accuracy) number or less on a single D 20 for each cannon
firing, needed to hit that ship.
If the results was a X means that the range was to long or short for your cannons or
type of ammunition you were using and can't fire.
Dice modifiers used for the Basic Accuracy number is as follows:
- 2 If your ship or the target ship was anchored or Stationary.
- 2 If your ship used Furled sails and didn't move (Pivoting is considered a move)
- 1 For a Bow Rake.
- 2 For a Stern Rake
+1 If your ship used full sails
+2 If your Crew is Demoralized (see Close Combat)
Charging After firing a broadside, Mark of 1/2 Ammunition Barrel for each Broadside that was
(Reloading) fired. Bow and Stern cannons don't mark of any Ammunition however they still need
to charged before they can fire again. Circle which Broadside fired at the bottom of the
Ship's Card or circle the Bow or Stern Cannons that fired and place the number of the
next game turn above the circle which indicates at the end of that turn when the
cannons are charge and ready to fire again. (Optional) Spanish ships need 2 game
turns to charge their cannons (Crews took longer to charge their cannons
Only 1 Broadside and either Bow or Stern cannons can be charged at a time after
firing.
Raking There is 2 types of Rakes ( Bow and Stern) and the target ship has to be within 3
hexes or less. A Bow/Stern Rake is when a ship's Bow or Stern is facing your ship so
that the Cannons Firing Zone is firing Straight down the length of the target ship and
can cause more damage to the target. A Bow Rake will receive a - 1 dice modifier and
a Stern Rake will receive a - 2 dice modifier to the Basic Accuracy number. See
Broadside Fire Zone on page 7 Armada Invincible Captain's Basic Course and use the
Damage goes to Stern for Bow/Stern Rakes when firing a Broadside.
Damage When you hit a ship with Cannonballs, it will cause damage to the ship's hull. Each
ship's hull is divided into three sections, each with it's own Durability Points (Boxes):
Right and Left Broadside and the Stern. The section of the target ship that suffers
damage is determined by the position of both ships.
Each hit destroys 1 Durability point and cross off 1 box in the appropriate section of
the ship diagram on the Ship Card. Damage to a ship's Broadside is marked starting
from the bow and going towards the stern. Damage to the stern is marked starting
from the Left side and going to the Right and lose will 1 Crew for each Durability Point
lost.
If the Durability Points next to a cannon are crossed off, that cannon is also destroyed
and is cross off and 1 crew member is lost and is crossed off. Note: If there are any
Soldiers on deck then 1 is also lost and is crossed off.
Special Damage: Any time a natural 1 is rolled apply normal damage and roll a d 6 to see if there was
any Special Damage with the following:
1=Fire, 2=Waterline, 3=Mast, 4=Helm or Rudder hit, 5-6=no effect.
Modifiers Half range -1 to die roll.
Results:
Fire: Lose 2 hull per turn if not put out (see damage control)
Waterline: 1 hull per turn if not put out (see damage Control)
Mast: First hit mast damage but holds unless ship was at full sail which will
destroys the mast.and every 2 mast hits = A mast destroyed
Helm or Rudder: A Helm hit is when a ship is firing into the bow or broadside
and is a temporary hit lose 1 crew and roll a d 6 for the following
results: 1-2= 1 turn straight, 3-4= 2 turns straight, 5-6= 3 straight before
ship can turn.
A Rudder hit is when a ship is firing into the stern and damages the Rudder
which needs to be repaired (see damage control)
Soldiers Soldiers are Musketeers and Pikeman. All Soldiers will be considered below
deck until needed. Musketeers will automatically be on deck if an enemy
ship comes within 2 hexes or less and may fire using Small Arms; Pikeman
will automatically be on deck if an enemy ship comes within 1 hex or less.
Soldiers will remain on deck for that turn or longer until the enemy ship
moves out of range then they will go below decks at the end of that turn.
Small Arms Musketeers have a maxium range of two hexes and can start to fire when an
enemy ship comes within that range. No more that 5 Musketeer units may
fire from each sections(left and Right Broadsides or the Stern) and only once
in a game turn.You must circle which Musketeer units fired and they will
automatically be charged at the end of the turn and ready to fire at the
beginning of the next turn, they don't mark off ammunition used. (remember
to erase the circles of the units that fired at the end of the current turn). To
hit a target at 2 hexes on a accuracy dice roll of 8 or less or at 1 hex will hit
a target on a accuracy die roll of 12 or less on a single D 20. A +2 modifier
is used of a Crew demoralized (see Boarding) The enemy ship gets to roll 1
D 20 for each unit hit to see if the Unit was saved by the ships defense
(located on the upper left hand side of the Ship's card) and if the results was
equal to or higher then the unit was saved.
Boarding (Optional) Initial Boarding (Close Combat) take's place after the end of all
Speed Tokens and Combat are finished. All ship's involved must be grapple
before any Boarding can take place. All players will assign up to 5 units to be
used in each Boardings (If there is Multiple boardings). Soldiers are used first
starting with Pikeman then then Musketeers and last is the Crew. You must
circle all units involved in each Boarding.
Close Combat Each player will roll 1 D 20 for each unit involved and will cause the
following casualties for each type of units in Close combat.
Pikeman: need a 10 or less to cause a casualty.
Musketeers: need a 7 or less to a casualty.
Crew: need a 4 or less to cause a casualty.
Die modifiers:
-1 for Spanish Pikeman
-1 for English Crew vs Spanish Crew
+2 for a Demoralize Crew (Soldiers and Crew)
Spanish are usually considered the Attacker especially if they have
Soldiers on Board and English will be considered the Attacker if the
Spanish ship doesn't have any Soldiers left.
The Attacker will total call casualties caused and then compare it to the
Defenders casualties will the following results:
+2 to -2 equals a tie and Boarding will continue to the next turn and
all ship's involved would receive 4 Speed Tokens with Close Combat
taken place after each Speed Token his used and after all Combat is
Completed.
+3 equals a victory and if the Attacker wins then the enemy ship was
Boarded and capture and if the Defender wins the attacker becomes
Demoralized for one complete turn with a +2 die modifier applied to all
combat and can't attempt any grappling. Close Combat is completed
for that action (unless their was a Multiple boarding then other close
Combat will continue until resolved) and all ship's may start normal
movement next turn unless the defender chooses to continue the
Close Combat then they would become the Attacker.
Damage control: Damage Control will take place after all Speed Tokens, Combat and Boarding
Actions are Completed for the current turn.
Roll a D 20 for each Special damage hit that needs to be repaired a 12 or
less= repaired (if ship doesn't fire then it can subtract -2 from the die roll)
Note When attempting to repair (put out a fire) and you roll a natural 20 It
means explosion roll a d 6 for results:
1=Ship explodes and sinks, 2= Mast destroyed, lose 4 hull and 4 crew,
3-4= Mast destroyed, lose 3 hull and 3 crew,
5-6= lose 2 hull and 2 crew.
End of Phase 1: Phase 1 is completed. Start Phase 2 and continue any additional phases
until all Speed tokens,Combat, Boarding Actions and Damage Control are
finished which ends the current turn. Start the next turn