first broadside a thought

Ok I may be wrong here, but it seams to me that the first broadside delivered from anywhere but close range would be less effective rather than more efective.

Two reasons for this.

1. The cannon barrels would be cold, thus accuracyt would suffer over longer ranges.

2. Generaly a ship sailed with loaded cannon so as to be ready for combat so the surge bags could be a little dampened and thus less effective.

I'm just speculating, I understand the phylosophy, and it certainly applies to musketry in land battles, but cannons on the high seas, I'm not so sure.

What do you guys think?

Unless under exceptionally heavy fire, the initial broadside is fired under a much more controlled manner than loading and firing as fast as you can.

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Originally Posted by bakblast

2. Generaly a ship sailed with loaded cannon so as to be ready for combat so the surge bags could be a little dampened and thus less effective.

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Thats exactly what they didn't do (partly for that reason). Cannon were stowed inboard and unloaded until the ship beat to quarters.

The rule also takes into account the longer time that the gun crews had to prepare the weapon (for example choosing the shot that had the best fit and hence the least windage) and having more time to sight for their first shot.

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Originally Posted by bakblast

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2. Generaly a ship sailed with loaded cannon so as to be ready for combat so the surge bags could be a little dampened and thus less effective.

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Already answered by Mr. Manley. :wink:

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Originally Posted by David Manley

Thats exactly what they didn't do (partly for that reason). Cannon were stowed inboard and unloaded until the ship beat to quarters.

The rule also takes into account the longer time that the gun crews had to prepare the weapon (for example choosing the shot that had the best fit and hence the least windage) and having more time to sight for their first shot.

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That's exactly what I was waiting to here, and from whom I wanted to here it from.

It should be pretty obvious to most that I was falling back on certain works of fiction as to the reasoning to point #2 of my original post.

As to the first, what about the cold cannon at LONG range?

Do you think that would be a factor?

And now just to show how anal I can be......:clap:

As far as "to quarters", I think it's two quarters, as in some sort of time signature on the drum, the call to clear for action and man your fighting station not go to your sleeping quarters (hamock)?

Any percussionists out there to clarify?

OK I'm waiting for a boot to the head.

According to a quick search leading to wikipedia results,

it's "to quarter". The Royal Navy used the rythmn of "Heart of Oak", wich is a march. Marches at that time were either composed as 4/4 or 2/2. In which case you have a beat on every step while marching.

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Originally Posted by bakblast

As far as "to quarters", I think it's two quarters, as in some sort of time signature on the drum, the call to clear for action and man your fighting station not go to your sleeping quarters (hamock)?

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Nope, definitely "to" not "two"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_quarters

:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Hobbes

According to a quick search leading to wikipedia results,

it's "to quarter". The Royal Navy used the rythmn of "Heart of Oak", wich is a march. Marches at that time were either composed as 4/4 or 2/2. In which case you have a beat on every step while marching.

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"Steady boys steady" I still prefer the "Grenadiers March" though it's not nautical at all.

I actually got the "two quarters" from an old National Geographic issue from the sixties, I have it around the house somewhere, if I find it, and my memory is correct(always a dubious proposition) I'll post it for posterity.

However given that a time signature is mentioned, and it is a wiki page...I still wonder, could it have started out "two" then as a phrase been written as "to"?

Kind of how two pence is spoken as tupence (parden my phonics).

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Originally Posted by bakblast

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As to the first, what about the cold cannon at LONG range?...

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Sorry, never heared or read that this had any influence on the shooting ability/range of a Napoleonic blackpouder cannon.

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Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys

Sorry, never heared or read that this had any influence on the shooting ability/range of a Napoleonic blackpouder cannon.

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It would have an effect, the rate of compustion of the powder / propellant increasing with temperature. I doubt whether the effects would be noticeable within the parameters of the game

In addition, i think it would be compensated by the benefits gained through carefully selecting the shot, loading the gun, aiming, synchronising the broadside.

This just reminded me of the scene in Master and Commander, where the crew even works on the shot itself to become more round (though this is not a historical source).

I'm a gunpouder shooter.

For pistols (Napoleon Le Page) and Revolvers (Colt Navy) it makes no difference.

I have to do some research for firing with cold barrels in the Napoleonic aera.

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Originally Posted by Hobbes

This just reminded me of the scene in Master and Commander, where the crew even works on the shot itself to become more round (though this is not a historical source).

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...but it is historically accurate :)

The standard broadside followed by he continuous fire rules probably represents more of what went on and captures that first full badass broadside.

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Originally Posted by David Manley

It would have an effect, the rate of compustion of the powder / propellant increasing with temperature. I doubt whether the effects would be noticeable within the parameters of the game

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If explaining to a layman, what would be the practical real-world effects? I am unknowledgeable about this, but interested.

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Originally Posted by David Manley

...but it is historically accurate :)

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Obviously some here have never heard of...

*CSI: Miami Horatio Caine Glasses Pull*

"Polishing the Cannonball."

Don't know if the so called "cold bore shot" counts for Napoleonic smooth-bore artillery.

(For sniper rifles and modern artillery I have heared about.)

But I think it makes no difference for the accuracy and range of Napoleonic black powder cannons.

I think the used weight and quality of black powder had more influence on the shot.

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

If explaining to a layman, what would be the practical real-world effects? I am unknowledgeable about this, but interested.

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The practical effects would be that the initial impulse imparted to the round would vary, and hence the velocity of the round (and so that could translate into a variation in range). In extreme cases, with more modern propellants and breech loading weapons in particular, this could lead to a partial or full detonation of the propellant (which would be bad - saw a very interesting video of this happening to a 155mm howitzer, with lots of very lucky people nearby who were missed by the bits of breech and barrel that were flying around!)

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Originally Posted by David Manley

The practical effects would be that the initial impulse imparted to the round would vary, and hence the velocity of the round (and so that could translate into a variation in range). In extreme cases, with more modern propellants and breech loading weapons in particular, this could lead to a partial or full detonation of the propellant (which would be bad - saw a very interesting video of this happening to a 155mm howitzer, with lots of very lucky people nearby who were missed by the bits of breech and barrel that were flying around!)

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Thank you, David. Now I understand.

Those old smooth bore cannons firing from a wave rolling ship with the crudely made balls and powder of that era and pretty much lacking effective sights weren't exactly known for their incredible accuracy. A 5-10% improvement to extremely crappy is still extremely crappy.
Really the only significant difference on that first broadside is that everyone is ready to go at the same time. I just don't see justification for a complicating special rule for it.