1809 - HMS Rinaldo (10)captured the French privateer Maraudeur in the Dover Straits
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1809 - HMS Rinaldo (10)captured the French privateer Maraudeur in the Dover Straits
Attack on Pearl Habor
http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.p...5&d=1354962550
US Navy:
4 battleships sunk
3 battleships damaged
1 battleship grounded
2 other ships sunk
3 cruisers damaged
3 destroyers damaged
3 other ships damaged
Japanese Imperial Navy:
4 midget submarines sunk
1 midget submarine grounded
All save 2-3 repaired and returned to service. Meanwhile: Targets which would have forced the USN to roll back to the West Coast of the US (sub pens; oil farms; etc.) were ignored, and left intact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys
Pearl Harbor is, without question, the greatest naval failure in military history.
Don't judge the US-Americans too hard, Chris.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by csadn
PS: I know what you really mean...
To be fair the whole day was about as big a f**k up as you could make on the part of both sides.
Yeah, I know -- it's just annoying to see so many people who've bought into the "Pearl Harbor was a Japanese Victory" BS, when even a brief glimpse into the aftermath shows exactly the opposite. It says something that at one of the Big Naval Battles of '44, the USN had a squadron of battleships consisting *entirely* of BBs "sunk" at PH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys
"You're dead... we killed you... WE KILLED YOU!" >;)
(Paranoid Conspiracy Theory: Yamamoto, knowing the Japanese would lose WW2 one way or the other, deliberately set up the PH attack to fail as it did to accelerate the failure. :) )
(That's a really paranoid theory)
:eek:
I think the Japanese had the wrong impressions, never expecting that they get kicked ass in this way by the US-Americans.
The Japanese in charge did -- they were mostly Army, and were the worst sort of provincial putzes; the *navy* types, OTOH, had "seen the world", and knew just how big a pond they were in... and how small a fish they were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys
The Japanese knew exactly what was coming to them, but the West (and the US in particular) didn't give them any choice. Backing down in 1941 would have meant an unacceptable loss of face; from that point war was inevitable and everyone knew it, it was just a question of when.....
Yes agree David, Japanese had no where to go having committed to war in china, down to what was it 9 months of fuel for the fleet (6?) and embargoed by the US they were pretty much stuffed. Naval command had said they had to win in 12 months or not at all so they did know. Army command were different and many of their problems stemmed from the friction and lack of cooperation between the branches of services. Undoubtedly hitting the fuel reserves and repair yards at pearl harbour and sending another wave of strike planes would have improved the immediate outcome but long term they probably couldn't "win" in any meaningful sense.
Another case where either not understanding the psyche of the opposition - or just not giving a damn and hang the consequences.
Another case of "what happens when one lets The Army -- and particularly the Army Infantry -- run the show".Quote:
Originally Posted by David Manley
Were the Army running the show in the US too then? That would explain a lot!
They did have considerable influence -- and yes, it does explain a lot, in both the US and Britain.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Manley